Torment's Difficulty Spike - Jumping from 180 to 200 and Differences

Discussion in 'Rants & Accomplishments' started by Ultimastrike, Jan 3, 2017.

  1. Ultimastrike

    Ultimastrike Well-Known Member

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    With going from U++ to Torment, I realize that DeNA actually made a monstrosity geared exactly for Whales who wanted more difficult content to do. Trash has 20k+ HP, which I'm ok with given the fact that it places it back to the difficulty it was in where you had the Elites in Gen 1 be really hard to deal with due to annoying trash.

    The only thing up about this is that the boss itself is stupid beyond reason. Even if you bring Wall, your damage will never reach what's needed unless you bring a full BSB Party, and no, Tyro doesn't need to have his Book to do anything. Torment is designed to be only for certain parties, seeing as not even Lv 80s(unless granted RS and native Realm Synergy) will be given the chance to live due to the large amount of damage that the boss produces.

    This may be considered a new end game, but I consider it more like DeNA's RNG bullshitting out the window. Want a Healing BSB? Too bad, we'll give you an SSB as consolation instead that is actually old as ****. From my perspective it's only going to get worse from here on since Torment is the only place where you can even get any more Job Motes...the items to buff your characters to a high enough level to challenge these bastards. You won't even be able to challenge Apocalypse whenever it decides to turn its ugly head if you're stuck on the bad end of the relic spectrum when it comes to pulling on even the best banners.

    TLDR; Torment is DeNA's way of saying "You need to have this party to ride." It makes it infuriatingly difficult to even manage to win against the boss, even with abilities obtained through things. When I look back, there are a few instances:

    Mote Ifrit - Difficulty spike was insane, and was geared, again, for players who had more than likely whaled their way to having certain relics at the time. Rinoa BSB crushed it, and those who were not owners of native Trinity were left without a chance.

    Nightmare Kaiser Dragon: Pure RNG Bullshit. Phases were all about elements and exploiting them, but Mastery required two different phases to happen, otherwise you'd see 6 phases and then enrage. No Stoneja or Stonega at the time, either: Only Quake or BSBs like Rinoa's BSB were capable of piercing the gap. Magic Blink was nearly a requirement due to the fact that damage output was 2k every time, even with a Lv 80 party, Wall, and Resistances set in.

    Those are just examples. If anything, gating progression is something I'm against if it involves items that aren't available to most users until 6 months from now.
     
  2. felixier

    felixier Salt Lord Staff Member

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    Before you even enter torment dungeons. You get a cut scene from Dr mog and tyro that says in short. THIS IS HARD.

    Before you enter the event. You get like 8 different warnings. All of which say THIS IS HARD!

    The boss and mob discriptions underline the fact that. THIS IS HARD.

    It also goes out of its way to make it crystal clear that these battles will be available repeatedly and if you arent able to clear them yet. You can try again later.

    It's not unfair to give players a challenge. Most of us here want exactly what this brings because it tests your hones, your party building capabilities, and flexes your intellect to overcome these challenges.

    For your "example" of nightmare kaiser dragon. When that first came out. It was extremely difficult. Especially for mastery. Because of that 2 weakness requirement and the strength of that battle.

    Myself, along with several chat members did that fight a week before orb fest. You can literally beat that fight in 5 rounds. Just completely and utterly destroy him with the chain magics and things that have come outbetween first release and today.

    So sure. If you aren't feeling up to the challenge. There is absolutely no reason to slam yourself against it. Just ignore and go for it later when you feel up to it. But to act as if "you must whale or else" is completely rediculous.
     
  3. talsa88

    talsa88 Well-Known Member

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    Haven't played the dungeon yet (yay spending all my mythril on grinding via the orb fest!), but I can say that I haven't really felt "challenged" by the game in a good long while, and with the exception of occasional 100-gems, I'm F2P. I do think that Nightmare Kaiser mastery was some RNG foolishness, but we've had so many amazing BSBs come out in the past few months, and so many people seem to have them (with the exception of newer players), that it seems about right for something absurdly hard. I'd say, see how you feel about the dungeon after it's been out for a few days.

    I will say that it sucks that we have to spend so much mythril to even attempt it, unlike Ifrit and Kaiser.
     
  4. Ultimastrike

    Ultimastrike Well-Known Member

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    I might've gone a bit out of the way. I know it's difficult. But there's a certain level of difficulty that has to be reasonable, and not within the realm of "Have X Relic to beat X Boss". I know Nemesis is coming, but I'm starting to wonder: How far will DeNA go with balancing out their relic distribution? We know good and well RNG decides who get to face what. I'm sorry if I sound like I'm being unrealistic, but I don't know anymore what things require.
     
  5. Locky

    Locky Active Member

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    I admit, I got angry at mote ifrit when it first came out (til today, I still have ZERO FFVIII SBs, either 0/11 from pre-G5, or 1/11 Barbut lol), then it was a relief to know it wasn't going away (unlike the Five Dooms, which I'm a little sad since I couldn't clear all 5 back then, and lost out of the 5* mote mastery rewards).

    And trust me, it is very cathartic to go in with new power creeped relics to kick Kaiser Dragon's ass AND get mastery after either getting screwed by RNG, or screwed by Kaiser waiting for RNG to favor me.

    That being said, such is the nature of RPGs in general, there is always, always some "must-haves" (which RPG does not have ANY form of healing at all? yes, there are games which do away with pure healing classes, but there's healing usually turns up as a basic skill almost everyone carries, items you can carry etc) to clear higher difficulties, it is up to the game designers to make sure that "must-haves" and the window of opportunity to make attempts not so ridiculously rare or specific as to piss off the player base.
     
  6. Aueh

    Aueh Well-Known Member

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    Mote Ifrit and Kaiser Dragon were meh for me.

    But i probably wont even try this for a long time. :D I just hate these guys from previous encounters. I probably have all the tools i need(except wm bssb), but meh. These guys are annoying.
     
  7. Vorcinator

    Vorcinator Member

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    Well, I will just say being the enormous whale that I am, that this new difficulty is awesome/evil. FFV was an interesting choice to start us on though. If it was 7, 10, or 13 we'd have it to easy.
     
  8. smeezus

    smeezus Official RKF Banner Rater

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    I would disagree with 10. Despite the amount of characters and events for 10, Hastegas are on very inconvenient characters. One of them hasn't seen a rerelease since the first Dissidia event and is on your primary DPS, the other is a Medica Hastega that doesn't get released for four months (more convenient because of the trash rounds, but still), and the third is a DPS Hastega. I'm probably more scared than I was for V solely because I'm going to have to RW Shout or OK BSB instead of something like a Faithga or Wall.
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2017
  9. Kenlimkenlim

    Kenlimkenlim Official RKF Stat Lord

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    I can only image the outcry when FFII Torment rolls around, with the three Gigas waiting to stomp our faces in.
     
  10. Vorcinator

    Vorcinator Member

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    Sound logic. I just was going off the idea that you probably have an easier time with X since it has had more relics spread out compared to others like V. Once you get into ideal groups, well I cannot think of any FF with a full team I could roll with on D250 at this time.

    At the end of the day, I think it is great and I love to that you cannot just spam resources and buff to win.
     
  11. Vetis09

    Vetis09 Active Member

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    I almost beat part 1 last night. Galuf and Phobos had a stand off. Phobos won.

    My team was
    Snow
    Galuf
    Refia
    Vanille
    Penelo

    I have a bunch of level 99 chars and that team got me the closest to victory


    Then again I'm considered a whale and yes there are bsb involved.
     
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  12. Vorcinator

    Vorcinator Member

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    No shame in that whale game. Who do you think pays for all this crap? People like you and me that is who. <3
     

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